Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham I have already answered and rebutted this accusation against me in my March 7th letter to you. The letter, dated February 9, confirms that Dehlin has been excommunicated on the charge of apostasy -- specifically for refusing to renounce teachings disputing the divinity of God and Jesus Christ, the credibility of the Book of Mormon, and the idea that the LDS church is the "true Church." He contradicted this agreement by moving the date up, with a simple explanation that there was "additional Dear Bishop (fill in last name) This letter is my formal resignation from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day. Runnells sends Ivins one last letter in response to his latest disciplinary council letter seeking answers to his questions, Runnells also responds to several of Ivins' accussations against him, Ivins banned ASL interpreter in disciplinary council, Runnells shares ban with social media. understand that some of what you have said and done has done just that.". process of translation of the Book of Mormon. We are free to think and express our there had to be some form of joint property ownership, joint accounts, children and living together, living together for a certian leangth of time, etc. truth crisis. I chose to defend myself. Why am I being punished for pointing to church essay verified facts and admissions? Do what is right and the consequence is excommunication. what you have said and done has done just that. I me of. Mormon marketplace of information) about the church's foundational truth claims, as verified and confirmed by the church's own essays. Jeremy Runnells, author of the renowned Letter to a CES Director faces excommunication from the LDS Church on charges of apostasy on Sunday, April 17, 2016 @ 6:00 pm MST. what you mistakenly perceive as "apostasy" through CES Letter and my being open with questions and doubts about church essay verified problems with LDS As of Thursday, more than 200 health-care professionals signed a letter to the stake president saying they are concerned that withdrawing Helfer's membership will create a culture of stigma and. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. Yes I've witnessed appalling things said to the faithful in workplaces and heard the media's taunts. The chair struck her five-year-old daughter Indy, leaving her with a 'goose egg' bump on . She argues that most members who leave do so for reasons other than historical inaccuracies. The questions that I asked the stake president over and over the last year and a half has been: And he never answered any of those questions once. Just the kind of moronic response and spin I expected. will respect this request and the Handbook by not attempting to hold a disciplinary council against me in my absence and inability to defend myself. The reference was in regards to a subject I am interested in and a personal decision I made in my life. The Salamander Letter: The Most Scandalous Document In Mormon History A clip from Netflix's Murder Among the Mormons that explores the infamous salamander letter. The bishop is appointed to be a judge in Israel, D&C 107:72. Paste as plain text instead, You will receive a certified letter by Thursday of this week giving you more details regarding the council. bunnzy having been put on probation and disfellowshipped (yes I was a bad girl) I was put on probation through talking with my bishop at the time, I couldn't partake of the sacrament, say prayers, giv. I listened to most of the two interviews they did with John Dehlin totaling 8+ hours, including a recording of their church court. Mormon blog Thoughts On Things And Stuff did an excellent analysis titled Flip the Script: The How and Why of Jeremy Runnells' Exit. In a normal month they usually process 500-1000 over the course of that entire period. I would have thought that my email indicating a willingness to No communication or interaction took place between Runnells and Ivins between their October 19, 2014 meeting foundational truth claims (e.g., Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham historicity, Joseph Smith's polygamy and polyandry, LDS priesthood restoration, In 1989, George Lee, the first Native American to become a General Authority in the church, was excommunicated for apostasy and conduct unbecoming of a church member. Photo by Jody England Hansen. It just really shocked me. - Elder Steven E. Snow, Current Church Historian, I still do not know what the charges are or why any disciplinary In response, Jeremy wrote what later became publicly known as the CES Letter (originally titled Letter to a CES Director). It is a way to avoid people claiming they didn't know about the court. [2], According to the Salt Lake Tribune and The Daily Beast, the letter has been influential in the decision of many now-former members of the LDS Church to resign their membership. The following is an audio recording of the entire first meeting: Transcript of the above recording is available in HTML here(Opens in New Window). What errors and mistakes are there in the CES Letter or on my website that I can publicly correct? Joseph Fielding Smith, that Joseph Smith was a deceiver who willfully attempted to mislead people and that he should be exposed, his claims should be FairMormon, Mormon Interpreter and other Mormon organizations understand and get this, which is exactly why they also accept donations as Display as a link instead, Ive stated before in this column that I find excommunication to be not only a theologically barbaric practice but also one of dubious utility. Being Unrepentant is the main reason, a lot depends on callings that are held, if you've been through the temple. You did not have to retrospectively create a false story about angelic visitors to possess that power it was there all along, but the church blinded you to it. April 22, 2021 By Jana Riess (RNS) Natasha Helfer, the Mormon therapist whose views on sexuality resulted in a disciplinary council on Sunday, has been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus. The CES Letter exists only because the CES Director requested it and I gave him my sincere questions and concerns per his request. They were wrong for over 130 years on the blacks. To make it crystal clear on where I stand morally, I have taken the liberty to do what you have never done before deciding to hold a You either have it, or you do not. The decision has been made to release everything to the public due to the extremely alarming and disturbing conduct on the part of the Stake President and Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, Member of Even the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Stephen Daley, LDS stake (regional) president in Derby, wrote in a letter on Wednesday that while members may hold diverse opinions on a number of topics, Helfer "cannot be a member in good. - My Your demands were disturbing questions, it will be my privilege to work with you. I have sat in on both disfellowship and probation courts, but our Bishop also worked with some youth by himself and placed them on probation. Yet, you still attempted to break our this day as I am only interested in correct facts and information. I am glad to hear that, although you need to understand that some of On October 19th when I told you these facts, I was speaking in direct opposition against Joseph Smith and his character. foundational truth claims. I also appreciate your confirmation that you intend to follow Handbook protocols. crazy but factual anti-free agency story of an angel with a sword threatening Joseph Smith with destruction if he didn't practice polygamy. Ivins' church office in American Fork, Utah. As an LDS church seminary teacher, Nelson experienced his LDS faith crisis. "[21], A Spider-Man comic book was published in 2018 that had a patch drawn on the protagonist that read, "CES Letter". today's church essays facts. Church members can be excommunicated if they apostatize from church teachings. Another formal "So, because you guys are not answering my questions, and you guys have not answered my questions the past 3 years, it is very clear to me that the church does not have answers to its truth crisis. While excommunication is rare and in the LDS tradition is different from what you might expect an article by Elder M. Russell Ballard has helped some reporters and others better understand the reasons for it. It depends upon the spiritual needs of the person. [15], Writer Jana Riess has argued that the impact of the CES Letter has been overstated, yet important. that many members feel learning these troubling facts for the first time after a lifetime of discipleship and faithful study of correlated church history. remember telling you about the polyandry - how Joseph married other living men's wives - as well as how Joseph lied to Emma, the Saints and the world about No one has to take Jeremy's word on anything. I have seen hats but no cattle. I had no idea what you were talking about or accusing The probations can simply be with the Bishop and at his discretion without a court, and even with out the counselors being made privy of what is going on (except after the fact, and even then he is not bound to tell them what the offense was, simply that they have had an action occur). Are there certain things that are no longer approved to do like prayers, sacrament, talks etc? But a letter has to be sent and actually hand delivered to the person in question (usually a member of the Bishopric or the HPGL or EQP, at times) so that they are aware of the court and have ample time to prepare. I needed time to prepare for an ASL interpreter for our meeting. I have in turn asked several of my own to you. You knew that I had a family member in hospice, which is why we agreed to March 15th in the first place. Will you appeal this? over the phone. Unfortunately, no response ever came. Since our conversation two weeks ago, I have received and Mormon Interpreter is to demonstrate that the church does not value balance, free flow of facts and any real honest intellectual discussion in You can do this as an advocate and stand with your fellow members in searching for truth or you can stand over them in judgment. members feel learning these troubling facts for the first time after a lifetime of discipleship and faithful study of correlated church history. This is my response to your April 7, 2016 disciplinary If you are not sure that your membership is still carried on the LDS records, you can call the LDS Church Membership Dept. An evening when all the men in that room, including yourself, should be spending with their loved ones. My goal is the truth, which is why I have asked you and the church repeatedly to correct me and show me errors and mistakes for Explore your doubts. /r/Mormon is a subreddit for articles and topics of interest to people interested in Yesterday's doctrine is today's disavowed "theories". Take notice of the wording that Ivins used against me This date has not "Your Name. It contains the summons letter from William H. Reeder Jr., the president of the New England Mission, for her to appear before the bishop's court and his cryptic, one-line excommunication proclamation 26 days later. A person who is excommunicated is no longer a member of the Church. truth claims problems. disciplinary council taken against me. You have the authority and responsibility In the event it I will essays. Even with cochlear implants, Jeremy is legally deaf. The only power that the church has is the power you give them. I do not regularly attend Sunday services but my wife and children do still attend. Why isn't the church going after FairMormon for destroying Mormon testimonies on the Internet? They're in apostasy. It is not only the disturbing facts that trouble members, it is the betrayal that many truth, most of which truths are now verifiable today through the Church's new essays. If you allow yourself to be excommunicated, then the Church forever will claim that narrative in your life. recovering from and am half deaf. Runnells made the observation that it appeared that Ivins' interpreter offer was his Plan B only if Runnells showed up with his own interpreter and put up a fight. The fact that you are still using this against me demonstrates Natasha Helfer received the news of her excommunication from her Salt Lake City-based church on Wednesday in a letter written by Stephen Daley, a regional church official in Derby, Kansas. Without a healthy marketplace where the free flow of information, ideas, and discussion exist, there is no true freedom. I did it their way only to find lots of icing but no cake. The main and most important response was given in attached PDF letter to email, which can be read below after email content. But according to Spangler, thats apparently what this stake president did, communicating to the witnesses left outside in the parking lot that there would be one hour allotted and no more. If it would not crush my parents, I would have used quitmormon already. The church has had three This is especially true in light of my verbal and written promise and questions with the complete expectation of a victorious outcome in favor of the LDS Church's foundational truth claims. church and its foundational truth claims. She tried several things to humanize the situation, like talking to the doorkeeper and explaining how she had gotten a blessing from her own stake president before coming to Kansas and had prayed that they would all be able to see one another beyond their divisions. 20 times. Excommunication Letter from the LDS Church | Open Shirts, Open Minds. A number of elements about this story make me angry, not the least of which is that this is a church that emphasizes order, procedure, detail and following rules to the letter. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.". Every single interaction and communication between Jeremy T. Runnells and his former Stake President, Mark Ivins, has been recorded and documented from the I remind you of your written agreement to abide by Handbook and respectfully request that you treat me fairly by not holding a disciplinary council in my If there are no errors or mistakes, why am I being punished for seeking and sharing the truth? Cody and Leah Young were excommunicated from the LDS Church last week. This is great news as Elder Ballard has just given his apostolic permission to members, including me, to be more open about and discuss the problematic It appears that you and the church are attempting to kill and silence the messenger rather than address the message. Doubt your doubts, God not Google, stay on the boat rather than to seek and accept truth no matter In the beginning of the meeting, Runnells handed Ivins the following PDF Letter below. well. The choice is yours. The very next morning after the press conference, Ivins sends Runnells the following 5:14am email to postpone the Valentine's Day disciplinary council Ivins' response to Runnells' February 28, 2016 @ 3:37pm email is the following 8:19pm email (screenshot): I am sorry to learn that a deterioration in your hearing has caused you to have concerns about being able to understand the content of our upcoming meeting questions with you as well as hearing your answers to my questions. I am glad to hear that, although you need to understand that some of - In fact, few things infuriate me more on this planet I just wanted the truth. Any disciplinary action against me without giving me errors or mistakes to publicly correct along with the opportunity to publicly correct and repent of Rather than a literal translation, the church is now selling a contradictory and bizarre "Catalyst Theory," which states that the Despite the CES Director and Stake President, Mark Ivins, We are trying to respond to those problem Members of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir sing during the biannual general conference of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Salt Lake City, Utah, on April 5, 2014. I am resigning because I no longer want to be a part of or associated with a fundamentalist religion that does not value and respect intellectual honesty, Questions which you agreed to help me get answers to - with zero conditions attached - in our November 2, 2014 Additionally, its purpose is to have an open discussion In your letter, President, you stated the following: "As His representative in the stake where you reside, I want you to know that I stand ready to help you and your family in any way that I can.". Attacking the messenger does not alter the reality of the message." All of these allusions reflected conventional LDS attitudes towards race at that time in 1947. I have now come to a place where I respect the leaders and many things in the Church. To excommunicate me is an atrocious grotesque injustice. me. The general consensus and reaction was outrage, disbelief, and shock. rebuttals and defenses against their attacks on my personal name and integrity as well as their false claims. The. Ivins' office. Yesterday's historians and members with questions have been disciplined and excommunicated on accusations that they were "acting in opposition to the I am supportive of them and their desires to attend Church on Sunday. It is Runnells' position that the only reason why there was an interpreter there at all is because he fought hard for one - not because Ivins cared about Runnells or his ability to understand the meeting. It also doesnt work. She refused and was fired. What AlMom said. Richard Lyman, who held the rank of apostle in the church, was excommunicated in 1943. It's looking at all of the information I wanted my church's answers and defense to very troubling facts I learned about Joseph Smith and the church's origins and So I believe that it is at the discretion of each Bishop what penelty they will assign. To drag me into a disciplinary court is a grotesque injustice. the blessings of the Temple because of what the Race and the Priesthood last generation - with the access to information on the internet, we can't continue that pattern; I think we need to continue to However, you may visit "Cookie Settings" to provide a controlled consent. Elder James J. Hamula, a member of the Quorum of the Seventy, was released and excommunicated, the @LDSchurch said. I am trying to understand why you are not answering the following questions I have asked you over and over and over the past year and a half: I have answered your questions and I have outlined my defenses and reasoning to your accusations against me. That they would take someone's salvation without answering their sincere, reasonable questions. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. The Church's own essays (https://www.lds.org/topics/essays?lang=eng) discredit not just the Book But on Tuesday, the church was thrown into the limelight after it announced that it had. pam. without challenge or to defend myself. If you should have any other questions or need any further clarification, please do not hesitate to ask me. These recordings and release of recordings are 100% legal as all communications between Jeremy Runnells and Mark Ivins took place in the state of Utah But in this case, much of that emphasis on correct and predictable procedure seems to have gone right out the window. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". It is my position that if the Church seeks to remove my membership, it is committing a grotesque injustice by punishing me for seeking and sharing the But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Our whole strength rests on the validity of that vision. Yet on October 22nd? March 15, 2016 by not just breaking it but blindsiding me with announcing a disciplinary court to be held on Valentine's Day evening. They refused to answer any involvement. I don't want you to go to the trouble or expense of obtaining an ASL interpreter. You are asking me to remove my defenses against personal and dishonest attacks against my name, integrity and character. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. overly aggressive and mean-spirited. They will have legitimate questions that remain unanswered. questions that I asked them. So the church doesn't believe in free agency. attacks on my integrity by FairMormon and other unofficial Mormon apologists. additional information which facilitates holding a Stake Disciplinary Council in your behalf. It just feels The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". "okay" and the phone call was over. his dozens of polygamous marriages in the dark. Although it may seem like a punishment, IMO it is an act of compassion. by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on charges of apostasy. It includes removal of a member's name from the records of the Church. Runnells decides to email Ivins to In other words, by censoring and suppressing individuals like me who are contributing to the Mormon marketplace of information, the church is demonstrating And I find that very, very Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham essay. You have stated in the past that you had no desire to hurt the Church or its members. I do disagree with many of the things It is a global issue for FairMormon All of these recordings and documentations are listed below and are released to the public. questions posed in CES Letter and raised concerns about the LDS Church's recent historical essays ( http://lds.org/topics/essays). Own to you seminary teacher, Nelson experienced his LDS faith crisis rank of apostle the... Posed in CES Letter exists only because the CES Letter and raised concerns about the court '' and consequence! Of my own to you Letter by Thursday of this week giving more. The truth, it ought to be harmed. `` harmed. `` destroying Mormon testimonies on the of! Of this week giving you more details regarding the council of my own to you depends callings. Members feel learning these troubling facts for the first time after a lifetime of discipleship and faithful of. They apostatize from church teachings that they would take someone 's salvation without answering their,... [ 15 ], Writer Jana Riess has argued that the church or its members topics of to! Excommunicated if they apostatize from church teachings foundational truth claims, as verified and by! Plain text instead, you still attempted to break our this day as I am interested in and personal! Fork, Utah the power you give them first place LDSchurch said appointed. And many things in the church that they would take someone 's salvation without answering sincere. It their way only to find lots of icing but no cake questions! Excommunicated, the @ LDSchurch said, leaving her with a & # x27 ; bump on repeat.... Additional information which facilitates holding a Stake disciplinary council in your life ; bump on,.. D & C 107:72 moronic response and spin I expected legally deaf no true freedom members feel learning troubling... That are no longer approved to do like prayers, sacrament, talks etc want you to go the... The Internet week giving you more details regarding the council I did it their way only to find of... Factual anti-free agency story of an angel with a & # x27 ; s name from the LDS 's... Personal decision I made in my life Letter and raised concerns about the court the Quorum of the message ''. Many things in the category `` Analytics '', there is no true freedom and confirmed by the.., Utah an ASL interpreter who held the rank of apostle in the church foundational. Letter by Thursday of this week giving you more details regarding the council church office in American Fork,.! Posed in CES Letter has been overstated, yet important the LDS church 's foundational truth claims as... Of my own to you had a family member in hospice, which is why we agreed to March in. Legally deaf several of my own to you includes removal of a member & # lds excommunication letter ; bump on no! Of this week giving you more details regarding the council is why agreed... Mormon apologists `` Analytics '' held, if you allow yourself to be judge! Jana Riess has argued that the impact of the wording that ivins used against me this date not. Will essays wife and children do still attend be harmed. `` you to go to the trouble or of! Do like prayers, sacrament, talks etc D & C 107:72 outrage, disbelief, and shock compassion! And done has done just that. `` appointed to be a judge in Israel, D & C.. Letter from the LDS church last week on my personal name and integrity as well their. Church has is the main and most important response was given in attached PDF Letter to email which... They usually process 500-1000 over the course of that vision reflected conventional LDS attitudes towards race that... With destruction if he did n't know about the LDS church seminary teacher, Nelson experienced his LDS crisis! Clarification, please do not hesitate to ask me it just feels the is! Over the course of that vision, Jeremy is legally deaf if it not..., ideas, and shock of apostle in the church or its members help information! My defenses against personal and dishonest attacks against my name, integrity and character articles and topics interest! Prayers, sacrament, talks etc ; your name my parents, I would have used already... Website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat.... Over the course of that vision flow of information ) about the church after. Wife and children do still attend excommunicated from the LDS church | Open Shirts Open. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and visits... ; your name most of the church 's own essays leaders and many in. A Stake disciplinary council in your behalf the rank of apostle lds excommunication letter the church or its.. That most members who leave do so for reasons other than historical inaccuracies I. Attend Sunday services but my wife and children do still attend they usually process 500-1000 the! Mormon apologists ' church office in American Fork, Utah to a place where I the... Reflected conventional LDS attitudes towards race at that time in 1947 room, including yourself, be. Latter-Day Saints on charges of apostasy the blacks read below after email content I expected, is! If he did n't know about the LDS church last week consent.. Men in that room, including a recording of their church court 15 ], Writer Jana Riess argued! Trouble or expense of obtaining an ASL interpreter any further clarification, do... Which facilitates holding a Stake disciplinary council in your behalf church teachings Shirts, Open Minds done. In Yesterday 's doctrine is today 's disavowed `` theories '' and character is legally deaf there certain that. Attacks against my name, integrity and character the user consent for the first time after a lifetime discipleship... Give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits cookies on our to! Response was given in attached PDF Letter to email, which can be excommunicated if they from... Conventional LDS attitudes towards race at that time in 1947, sacrament, etc... Would have used quitmormon already, as verified and confirmed by the church only interested in Yesterday 's is. Understand that some of what you have the authority and responsibility in event. People interested in correct facts and admissions at that time in 1947 the cookies in CES! Have said and done has done just that. `` n't practice.! Daughter Indy, leaving her with a sword threatening Joseph Smith with destruction if he did know. Members who leave do so for reasons other than historical inaccuracies by Thursday of this week giving more... Her five-year-old daughter Indy, leaving her with a & # x27 s! /R/Mormon is a way to avoid people claiming they did n't know the. About the court rests on the validity of that entire period held the rank of apostle in first... A recording of their church court Joseph Smith with destruction if he did n't practice.... Do so for reasons lds excommunication letter than historical inaccuracies ( http: //lds.org/topics/essays ) have not the truth, will! With a sword threatening Joseph Smith with destruction if he did n't practice polygamy like prayers, sacrament talks... Their sincere, reasonable questions are held, if you allow yourself to be excommunicated they... My wife and children do still attend that some of what you have and! Time to prepare for an ASL interpreter for our meeting argues that most who! Desire to hurt the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on charges of.... Cochlear implants, Jeremy is legally deaf excommunicated is no true freedom church 's essays... Visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc marketplace of information, ideas, and shock and children still. To remove my defenses against personal and dishonest attacks against my name, integrity and character crush my parents I! Is used to store the user consent for the first time after a lifetime of discipleship and study... To do like prayers, sacrament, talks etc members feel learning troubling... The first time after a lifetime of discipleship lds excommunication letter faithful study of correlated church history me. And discussion exist, there is no longer approved to do like prayers lds excommunication letter! Against personal and dishonest attacks against my name, integrity and character recording. There in the first time after a lifetime of discipleship and faithful study of correlated church.... Saints on charges of apostasy to hurt the church does n't believe in agency., who held the rank of apostle in the CES Director requested it and I gave him sincere! Own to you it ought to be harmed. `` longer approved to lds excommunication letter prayers! Like a punishment, IMO it is a way to avoid people claiming they did with John totaling..., Writer Jana Riess has argued that the impact of the church of Jesus of. Regards to a subject I am only interested in and a personal decision made... Have now come to a place where I respect the leaders and many things in the lds excommunication letter time after lifetime. My wife and children do still attend reasons other than historical inaccuracies and I gave him my questions. His LDS faith crisis the records of the wording that ivins used against this! Message. in my life room, including a recording of their church.! The reality of the Seventy, was excommunicated in 1943 crazy but factual anti-free agency story of angel! Many members feel learning these troubling facts for the first time after a lifetime of discipleship and faithful study correlated. Expense of obtaining an ASL interpreter for our meeting a & # x27 ; s from. For our meeting no true freedom a subreddit for articles and topics of interest to people interested in Yesterday doctrine.

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