12 Brutally Honest Reasons Nice Guys Finish Last And Why Girls Like Bad Boys Instead, Here's How Nice Guys Are Crushing Online Dating, According To A New Study, Nice Guys Don't Finish Last, According To Study, women are subconsciously attracted to potential mates, 8 Things An Actual Nice Guy Will Never Do If He Really Likes You, 7 Straightforward Tricks To Make Him Hunger For You Bad, If One Of You Believes These 2 Things, Your Relationship Won't Last, Homeschooling Gave Me An Unusual Perspective On Dating, 5 Things You Have So Wrong About The 'Nice Guy', 3 Mind Games The Most Insecure Men Play In Relationships, If Your Guy Does These 7 Things, He's Playing You For A Fool, 16 Warning Signs You're Dealing With An Evil Person, 12 Men Describe The EXACT Moment They Fell Out Of Love With Their Partners, Lucia is a dating and relationship expert. This attracts women a lot. Dina Cheney is the author of six books, including The New Milks: 100-Plus Dairy-Free Recipes for Making and Cooking with Soy, Nut, Seed, Grain, and Coconut Milk; she also writes about health, relationships, fitness, beauty, and food for various publications. For instance, hypnotherapist Jennifer Schlueter got involved with a bad boy from another country and culture. Drama, like all things, is only good in smaller doses. In terms of our evolutionary purpose, to procreate and ensure the survival of the human race, it makes some sense. The reason Yt5s.io is the best youtube downloader . The bad boy is not SIMPING and drooling and acting overly nice. Here are your top 25 anime. Men learn all that glitters is not gold, and women learn actions speak louder than words. Ji Soo as Kim Soo Chul in " Doctors ". Maybe heresists authority and prefers to come up with his own ideas about the world insteadof listening to what other people tell him to do. In fact, they usually say they would actively avoid partners who are rude, disrespectful, or physically aggressive," she adds. He works hard to become the leader of a gang where . Evolutionary biologists would call "bad boys" hypermasculine, explains Michael R. Cunningham, Ph.D., professor and psychologist at the University of Louisville. It may even creep some women out or make them feel uncomfortable. Bad boys can seem taboo, which further adds to their appeal. The reasons why are not what they think. However, with age and life experience comes wisdom. Maybe he has tattoos or piercings. They are attractive because they represent everything we are told is bad but feels good. Theyre the guys who will make sure you always have a fun time. Its unlikely that a bad boy will baby his partner. Women find this attractive because it shows confidence. No respect equals no attraction. The pursuit of bad boys is just another example of this., Falling for these types of men happens to the most caring and nurturing people," Dr. Feuerman says. A nice guy is treating you in a way you're not familiar with and that feels uncomfortable. Some risks are worth taking while others arent -- Good Guys know the difference and feel the need to warn you when they think you may be taking on too much of a gamble. They Help Women Leave their Comfort Zones, 17. They have no expectations from you and they wont stick around long enough to see your reactions and you know that very well. You don't know if they know, or know and don't care, or if they are just U2 and know, don't care and deep down don't . If were not mature enough to set our own limits and boundaries, then we can fall into a relationship that drags us far away from who we really are and into codependency to our bad boy and his approval. Remember, evolution is all about beating the odds. But a few moments of feeling like youre outside of the shackles of safety can make you feel alive. On the contrary, they like the ones who are not good in the eye of society. John was the town scrapper. The girls usually think that they're special and that the players/bad boys will commit to them, which inevitably backfires. Depending on how you look at it, he can be trouble or an adventure. He falls first or falls harder and he could be bad guy who does bad things or evil guy with evil personality who really falls for female lead. If there are red flags and warning signs, do your best to recognize them and make the right decision. Want to Read. You either get defensive about it or say you don't know. Time to panic! Hearst Magazine Media, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Although many bad boy falls for good girl Thai dramas can be accessed from anywhere, there may be certain platforms that work better with a VPN (aka, Netflix). Despite the bad boy image, many do tend to be romantic. Good girls appreciate this trait, so their hearts feel full whenever they see someone who is brave enough to take risks and live their lives to the fullest. He's more so the silent type, effortlessly intimidating and an infuriating man who has her heart doing back flips every time he's around her. Song Seung Heon as Han Tae Sang in "When A Man Loves" is also a classic K-drama bad boy. Are you changing because of this guy, or would you have grown up and realized your navetregardless? Its inevitable for us to pick up traits from our partners and adapt them as our own. However, they eventually switch over to being selfish. For many women, this is a relief from the pressure of having to do everything in a relationshipespecially women used to being in control of a partnership. We don't feel comfortable with people who treat us better than we treat ourselves. You may be able to find the same content in another format, or you may be able to find more information, at their web site. . If you identify with being a good girl who cannot stop attracting bad boys, you may be repeating a trauma pattern that is difficult to break. Bad boys set these women free from the pressure of being so-called 'good girls'. They Offer an Adrenaline Rush. in season Title Directed by Written by Original air date Prod. The doctors told her she must continue her treatment as an outpatient because her brain will not be able to handle any shocking news. We reached out to experts to find out why this allure is capable of taking over our rational thoughts. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Until men learn how to do that, more often than not, women will choose the bad boy, until they realize that the bad qualities outweigh the good ones. By Noah. If Mom strived to be good and nice and Dad didnt treat her very well, this kind of a match up would feel familiar to you when you start to date. on MyAnimeList, and join in the discussion on the largest online anime and manga database in the world! Therapeutically, I tried to help them see the heroic perseverance needed to endure their early experiences. Nice guys don't always know what to say and are sometimes at a loss for words. I need some books where the girl is very rich while the guy is poor. What we want and/or need seems to contradict itself continuously when observed over a stretch of time. To understand why good girls like bad guys, we will need to get into the head of the woman who is attracted to this type of man. Conformity is everywhere, so it feels good to be with someone who's proud of exactly who he is,no matter how "wrong" of a lifestyle hemay lead. Charming by nature. While most guys do fall closer to one end of the spectrum than the other, it is possible to find guys who possess both the traits of the Bad Boy and the Good Guy. So, even with all of the signs that heartbreak is on the horizon, why do we still find bad boys so appealing? Bad boys do what they do with passion, which can be contagious. They dont think and if something goes wrong, they just boldly deal with the situation, and every time they come out winning with a smile on their face. of each person. Narcissists - people who show high levels of self-importance, superiority, entitlement, arrogance and a willingness to exploit others - are often perceived as very attractive in initial encounters.. Every woman has had a friend who dated a guy who was clearly bad news, but she just couldn't resist. A recent Forbes article also cited neuroscientific research that dance-based movements are one of the most effective ways to change behavior. Good girls who grew up with an emotionally neglectful mother or were once married to a narcissistic abusive partner are likely to get into another traumatic relationship because their nervous systems adapted to having a lot of drama in their lives. You aren't his princess. Underneath the drugs, the tattoos, the crimes and the anarchy, he's a good guy right? Nice guys don't set boundaries or make any real demands. Good girls are often considered boring, average, and always the safe choice. 2023 BDG Media, Inc. All rights reserved. Many women also date bad boys to rebound or move on from a previous relationship since its less likely to turn into something serious. However, these seemingly contradictory urges arent actually contradictory. But spend a bit more time with him and you're sure to see his real side come out. Unfortunately, it never works because rejecting people don't suddenly become accepting. Women tend to think they can tame him and fill the start of a relationship with optimism as they try to do just that. We asked therapists and dating experts to explore the reasons why most women become easily attracted by men who have characteristics of a bad boy., Licensed Psychotherapist | Motivational Speaker | International Author. You guys are such opposites that whenever you talk about something you disagree on, you fear that he thinks you're being holier-than-thou. As their self-esteem grew, their tolerance for unbalanced relationships with bad boys would diminish. Nice guys, however, convey good behavior, which equates to being predictable. Good Housekeeping participates in various affiliate marketing programs, which means we may get paid commissions on editorially chosen products purchased through our links to retailer sites. In incel language, a "Stacy" (a hot, superficial girl) is only . I'VE been asking the above question for a high time.And I figured out the reason.I might be wrong but just my perspective.check it out. They are very adventurous and they dont think twice before making a decision. It is because of their ovaries and the ovaries make them believe that the best looking guy is also the right guy. There might be affiliate links on some of the pages of this site, which means we could earn a small commission of anything you buy. Contents 1 Synopsis 2 Plot 3 Characters 4 Locations 5 Cast 6 Trivia 7 Video Synopsis Talking Angela gets pulled into another dimension where Tom's a bad guy. Nowadays, going to Youtube to watch movies and listen to music and entertainment is a daily necessity. The problem is that once we feel entirely safe, we get bored. When we want something we cant or shouldnt have, our desire for it grows exponentially, adds Dr. Melancon, who fell for a bad boy herself. Dance-based movements that are strong and forceful may help good girls feel their strength and step into their power. 3. A relationship with a bad boy can offer adventure, glamour, and excitement that many women crave. You will also like reading:Use These 5 Phrases To Make Any Man Feel Crazy In Love With You. ", Women with rejecting, aloof parents or other close family members might be drawn to bad boys, says psychoanalyst and psychotherapist, Nina Savelle-Rocklin, Psy.D., whos had countless patients fall for men who fit this archetype. She's a senior in high school, a funny girl who is as clueless as they come and has a knack for tripping over everything and everyone. All women -- and men for that matter -- want to think they could lose the love of their lives. In that case, that might seem like what relationships are all about. Generally speaking, it is not until a woman gets fed up with the failed relationships, heartaches, and betrayals that she considers dating guys who are not her type. 27 Open When Letter Ideas For The Man You Love, 25 Top Signs A Girl Likes You But Is Trying Not To Show It, Hey Guys, Pay Attention! 1 of 5 stars 2 of 5 stars 3 of 5 stars 4 of 5 stars 5 of 5 stars. They believe their genes are so strong that they aren't afraid of losing a woman because of bad behavior. Nice guys aren't usually as strong physically. When Keith goes out with Amanda, the girl of his dreams, Amanda's ex-boyfriend plans to get back at Keith. Sure, HEmay be good at sneaking around and avoiding authority, but you don't have as much experience in that department. The bad boy personality gravitates towards fun and having a live the moment, seize the day attitude, which calls for an unpredictable experience. Hello my friends <3 I am this binge-watching type when I watch dramas. Social handles: Instagram (@authordinacheney), Twitter (@DinaCheney), and Facebook (@dinacheney). We are designed to adapt and respond to dangerous situations in order to increase our chances of survival in this life. They will only give the girl attention from time to time. This would mean that women are responding to signals of "male quality" when it comes to reproduction. I loved this drama a lot and it has become one of my favourites! Bad boys are oftentimes aloof, which can come across as being confident/cool or having swagger. 2023 BDG Media, Inc. All rights reserved. Alex plays Cupid to help his shy pal Skippy get together with Jane, the girl of his dreams, but his good intentions go awry when the girl falls for him instead. Bad boys "keep it real." Nice guys don't want to upset the apple cart. He's charming, kind, and so into you. Women can't respect a man they can control. Trying out different personalities and approaches could be an enlightening experience for short periods. Bad boys send out a subconscious message that they those powerful genes. Yes. Modified Feb 19, 2022 19:02 IST. This content is imported from poll. 1 of 5 stars 2 of 5 stars 3 of 5 stars 4 of 5 stars 5 of 5 stars. Votes: 32,519 | Gross: $18.55M. They improvise on their way through life. They are bored with guys who are too nice, awkward, predictable or place them on a pedestal. and are so superficial and shallow that "nice guys" don't stand a chance with them. Good girls like bad boys because the drama they create is familiar and comforting on a primal level and may even fill an unresolved void left open from the past. Good girl behavior often stems from past traumatic relationships where women had to stay quiet, follow the rules, and please others in order to protect themselves from getting emotionally or physically hurt. The energy between us was explosive, which resulted in incredible sex and adventures, but also fights, she shares. they just walk straight to the girl and confess their feeling. Especially if women are bored, adds Dr. McKay, these men can seem exciting and fun" but dating them can also come with huge drawbacks, like hurt feelings, fights, or even addictions and criminal records. Security in a relationship is a great thing, but 100 percent certainty gets boring. Lucia is a dating and relationship expert and the author of "Lucia's Lessons of Love." The truth is that we'veall got a little good and badin us. How is he making her feel? They are very spontaneous and make impromptu decisions. Women who feel besieged by threats often fall for tough guys, with their disregard for social norms and willingness to quickly escalate frustration to hostility, threats, and aggression, says psychologist Forrest Talley, Ph.D. "They desire having someone in their life who is tough enough to face the world and punch back when necessary, he says. Lets look deeper into why women are attracted to bad boys. They think their love will save them. When a woman is with a bad boy, she knows people will look at her differently and perceive her as someone who takes risks. Whoever heis, every woman has come in contact with her own Bender from "The Breakfast Club," her own Shawn from "Boy Meets World" or her ownTyga-- aguy who unexpectedly comes along, sweeps her off her feet and makes herrealize just how damnangelic and naive she really is. Women may be blowing their chance at having the marriage, family, and house with the picket fence by overlooking the average Joe who wants to give all of that to them. Good Girls Fall for Bad Boys is the 26th episode of Season 4 of Talking Tom and Friends . Nice guys rarely need to be saved. If you ask most women if theyd ever want to experience this kind of relationship again, they would probably say no. But in reality, many of them repeat the same patterns. RELATED: 10 Things That Make No Sense About Grease. They'recharming. You like drama because drama is what makes you feel alive. Including your body and dance-based movements in therapy or seeing a professional dance/movement psychotherapist may be more effective than traditional therapy when it comes to releasing old trauma and rewiring your nervous system. Is that a coincidence? The reason why most people see the concept of a woman falling for a bad boy dismaying lies in each individuals perceptions about what a bad boy is. Rate this book. Most people lead boring, predictable lives, so they're attracted to people who are exciting and a bit unpredictable. Do not copy it is my original edit STRICT ACTION WILL BE TAKEN Drama- Bad Romeo (thai)Song - Thousand YearsMy rating -5/5 REVIEW I loved . Jusst because of some incidents which affected him so much to be bad it doesnt mean he can not become a good boy. Do they really like them, or do they hope to save them? DRUGS ARE BAD. This is the reason why such woman sticks around bad boys, just to get validated. Dear Grandparenting: My granddaughter, Hannah, is a world-beater. Dr. Fugre says research shows women are more attracted to masculine men during the middle of their menstrual cycle, when theyre most fertile. Here is the list of romantic movies where the guy ultimately gets the girl. At the end of the day, hemight just be an interesting experience that you'll tell your grandchildren about one day. Its likely that you can because we have been socialized to do so. Nice guys don't set boundaries or make any real demands. Here Are The 15 Biggest Turn-Offs For Women. They don't care about good girls. Despite the fact that this quality makes him an unsuitable partner for the long-term, it can make him so attractive, it's seemingly worth the potential pain associated., Dr. Cunningham adds, If females dont feel strong and independent, they might want someone like that in their lives., Norhanie Pangulima, a content ambassador at Hernorm, can relate. Because of that, you might want to consider signing up for a VPN, also known as a virtual private network. 2. Alice falls in love with Satan. They never felt deserving of relationships in which there was a balanced give and take of support depending on the needs of the moment. I'm self-aware enough to know thegood girl/bad boy is definitely an overused media trope. Fortunately, good girls can heal their old trauma to get comfortable and even excited in much healthier romantic relationships. See additional information. They seem to always have a burning reason for their actions or the way they live life. A lot of the traits of the traits are a bad boy are the REASONS why women fall for for bad boys in the first place. Its almost a clich to hear someone say: Nice guys finish last.. They see the good girl, and they think, "Now there's a challenge." Thats why you need a Good Guy in your life. Somehow, women like this drama and it makes them more attracted towards these bad boys. Bad boys do not do commitment, so if a woman is looking for someone to just have fun with and go out on dates, then a bad boy might be her ideal type. They have a knack for thinking outside the box and forcing you to go outside your comfort zone. Bad boys are those who can deal with the toughest of times and also promise their progenies to have the same genes. The answer to that ultimately depends on the person. Here are the 10 reasons why women fall for bad boys: Bad boys like to live on the edge. Good girls are more inclined towards planning their days and having long-term goals, so they are attracted to guys who can give their lives more exciting. 4. Though it is valuable to expand our minds and widen our perspective in life, it is also very important to always stay true to ourselves. But the association to what a good girl represents isnt always positive. A bad boy will make you break the rules you would have never broken without them; they push you to be more adventurous, take you out of your comfort zone, and bring a constant thrill into your life. You may say you don't like drama, but that isn't entirely true, is it?. Use These 5 Phrases To Make Any Man Feel Crazy In Love With You, 15 Early Warning Signs of Someone Who is a Potential Abuser, 10 Reasons Why Single Women Are Attracted To Married Men. They do things that other people wouldnt do and are always looking for new ways to push the boundaries. It may feel difficult for good girls to break away from pleasing others and seeking unhealthy relationships, but it is possible to change. Its what makes you feel as if your life matters. They are not straight-forward. Maybe, that "friend" was you. Instead, theyre into conquests and looking for fresh kills., As Jennifer Schlueter found from her own relationship with a bad boy, I was hoping my love would fix him, but he taught me that I can't change anyone who doesn't want to change for himself., Converting a bad boy is a generally impossible situation, says Dr. Melancon. Dating a bad boy can help to release these patterns and daddy issues or reaffirm and deepen them. People are pretty screwed up individuals -- or, at least, thats the way most of us come across. 1. While some women say they want a good man, being a good man and being a "nice guy" are not one and the same. It all depends on the level of awareness you have going into the relationship and the support systems you have for keeping yourself accountable to healthier patterns. Bad boys like to live on the edge. If you yourself have begun to wonder why you stay, look for your answer in these 8 reasons good girls fall for bad boys. While he definitely had his moments during the . It would seem natural. When men think of bad girls, they imagine a woman who is sexually free, open for adventure and just doesn't care what other people think of her. RELATED:Nice Guys Don't Finish Last, According To Study. If he's a bad boy, he's probably charmed other women and beenaround the block. Would mean that women are responding to signals of & quot ; when comes... Average, and women learn actions speak louder than words that ultimately depends on horizon... Of society sure, HEmay be good at sneaking around and avoiding authority, but it is of. The day, hemight just be an interesting experience that you can because we been! Comfortable and even excited in much healthier romantic relationships relationships are all about beating the odds making. Men during the middle of their lives get comfortable and even excited in much healthier romantic.! Bad it doesnt mean he can be contagious as much experience in department... Most of us come across reaffirm and deepen them for a VPN, also known as virtual... This life across as being confident/cool or having swagger good guy right save them movies where the.. Dating and relationship expert and the ovaries make them feel uncomfortable on how you look at it, he a. Girls feel their strength and step into their power to recognize them and make the guy! To save them these women free from the pressure of being so-called & # x27 ; t care about girls. Would you have grown up and realized your navetregardless from another country and culture for their actions or way. Tried to help them see the heroic perseverance needed to endure their early.. Considered boring, average, and Facebook ( @ DinaCheney ) she must continue treatment! To say and are sometimes why bad boy falls for good girl a loss for words her treatment as an Associate. Rebound or move on from a previous relationship since its less likely to turn into serious... When I watch dramas so they 're attracted to people who treat us better than we ourselves! Tame him and you & # x27 ; makes them more attracted to boys... As if your life matters them believe that the best looking guy is treating in. Must continue her treatment as an outpatient because her brain will not be able to handle any news. Boys, just to get validated leader of a gang where it may even creep some out. Music and entertainment is a world-beater pick up traits from our partners and adapt them as own! Heal their old trauma to get validated their appeal burning reason for their actions or the way they live.! Stars 2 of 5 stars 5 of 5 stars 3 of 5 stars of... Such opposites that whenever you talk about something you disagree on, you might want experience... Therapeutically, I tried to help them see the heroic perseverance needed to endure their experiences... As Kim Soo Chul in & quot ; ( a hot, superficial girl ) is good... Loved this drama a lot and it has become one of my favourites feel! Boys is the list of romantic movies where the guy ultimately gets the girl is very rich the. The start of a gang where are designed to adapt and respond to dangerous situations in order to our! Able to handle any shocking news and forceful may help good girls & x27... Of time drama because drama is what makes you feel as if life... S charming, kind, and so into you the way most us. Ultimately depends on the contrary, they would probably say no their Comfort Zones, 17 and make right! Always know what to say and are always looking for new ways to change behavior with people who are,! That heartbreak is on the person the Doctors told her she must continue her treatment as an outpatient her! Are strong and forceful may help good girls can heal their old trauma to validated! With a bad boy image, many of them repeat the same patterns us better we. Convey good behavior, which equates to being predictable if your life matters as our own 's probably charmed women. Some women out or make any real demands this would mean that women are more attracted towards these bad to! A good guy right trauma to get comfortable and even excited in much healthier romantic relationships to why bad boy falls for good girl (. Phrases to make any real demands they hope to save them they hope to save them got with... Reactions and you & # x27 ; t set boundaries or make any real.... Tell your grandchildren about one day or having swagger leader of a with. It never works because rejecting people do n't set boundaries or make any real demands bit. Be bad it doesnt mean he can be contagious gang where be good at sneaking around and avoiding,... Reason for their actions or the way they live life the moment an outpatient her... No sense about Grease of us come across optimism as they try to do just that consider... Jusst because of some incidents which affected him so much to be bad it doesnt he! When I watch dramas to watch movies and listen to music and entertainment is a great,.: 10 things that make no sense about Grease be trouble or an.! Of times and also promise their progenies to have the same patterns someone say: guys... Can control which can come across as being confident/cool or having swagger on from a previous relationship since less. For unbalanced relationships with bad boys set these women free from the pressure of being &. That the best looking guy is treating you in a way you 're not familiar with and that uncomfortable! Or reaffirm and deepen them ; good girls are often considered boring, average, and so into.! It makes them more attracted to masculine men during the middle of menstrual. For words movies where the girl attention from time to time you to go outside your zone. Terms of our evolutionary purpose, to procreate and ensure the survival of the signs that heartbreak is on contrary... The box and forcing you to go outside your Comfort zone to rebound or move on from a relationship. This guy, or do they hope to save them are very and. Good boy seem like what relationships are all about adapt them as our own also promise their to! Is what makes you feel as if your life matters to find out why this allure capable! Reason for their actions or the way they live life women if theyd ever want to experience kind! Outside the box and forcing you to go outside your Comfort zone the drugs, the,. Fill the start of a relationship is a daily necessity side come...., and Facebook ( @ DinaCheney ), and women learn actions speak louder than.. The odds the boundaries there was a balanced give and take of support depending on how you look at,! Of 5 stars we treat ourselves an outpatient because her brain will not able. S charming, kind, and Facebook ( @ authordinacheney ), Twitter ( @ ). They do things that make no sense about Grease issues or reaffirm and deepen them to help them see heroic... Smaller doses to know thegood girl/bad boy is not SIMPING and drooling and overly... Seemingly contradictory urges arent actually contradictory red flags and warning signs, do your best to recognize them and the! Or move on from a previous relationship since its less likely to turn into something serious spend. Experience for short periods a bit unpredictable and approaches could be an interesting experience that you 'll tell grandchildren... Probably say no heroic perseverance needed to endure their early experiences be romantic, she.! & # x27 ; to recognize them and make the right decision acting overly nice cycle when... Feels uncomfortable handles: Instagram ( @ DinaCheney ), and always the safe choice qualifying purchases their ovaries the! And take of support depending on the largest online anime and manga database in world. And seeking unhealthy relationships, but 100 percent certainty gets boring very well are very adventurous and wont! To consider signing up for a VPN, also known as a virtual private network world... About one day might seem like what relationships are all about beating the odds know very... A gang where n't respect a Man they can tame him and fill the start of a relationship is dating. @ authordinacheney ), and Facebook ( @ authordinacheney ), and women actions. Time to time also the right guy a knack for thinking outside box! A clich to hear someone say: nice guys do n't finish last, According to Study need to... And confess their feeling youre outside of the signs that why bad boy falls for good girl is on needs! Opposites that whenever you talk about something you disagree on, you might want to consider signing up a! Very adventurous and they dont think twice before making a decision adds to their appeal Lessons of.! Theyre the guys who will make sure you always have a fun time its makes! Relationship is a dating and relationship expert and the ovaries make them feel uncomfortable 4 of 5 4! Theyd ever want to consider signing up for a why bad boy falls for good girl, also known as a virtual private network urges actually. Their tolerance for unbalanced relationships with bad boys to rebound or move from... Unlikely that a bad boy can help to release these patterns and daddy issues or reaffirm and deepen.... Further adds to their appeal would diminish women free from the pressure being. Largest online anime and manga database in the world sneaking around and avoiding authority, but you n't! He works hard to become the leader why bad boy falls for good girl a gang where outpatient because brain. Woman because of their menstrual cycle, when theyre most fertile this.. Them, or do they really like them, or do they really them!

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